“Why interview Bannon? He has a direct line to the Republican presidential nominee. To understand what a second Trump presidency will be like, listen to what Steve Bannon is saying.”
Except that when you don’t tell Steve Bannon, or more importantly your audience, that what Steve Bannon is saying is morally wrong, factually incorrect, explicitly anti-American and with strong echoes of Nazism, because that would be “biased,” people get the impression that maybe what he’s saying is OK. Our wealthy media class loves to congratulate themselves on “educating and informing the public,” but only sometimes. Nobody said “Well, here’s what Osama bin Laden has to say, and it’s not up to us to say whether it’s true or right,” and yes I am comparing the two.
As for the debate, I’ll say what I said last week: If you’re not going to fact check Trump while he’s lying to your face, why bother doing it later? Does the truth matter, or does it only matter when Donald Trump isn’t around to get mad at you? At best, you’re just pretending that fact checking Trump is a difficult, time-consuming process; Daniel Dale himself has said his job used to be difficult but it isn’t anymore because the lies are always the same.
"Except that when you don’t tell Steve Bannon, or more importantly your audience, that what Steve Bannon is saying is morally wrong, factually incorrect, explicitly anti-American and with strong echoes of Nazism, because that would be “biased,” people get the impression that maybe what he’s saying is OK."
* This is what normalization is, but the way you put it hits you in the gut! I need to keep this description in mind. Thanks very much!
Steve Bannon has been open about manipulating/weaponizing/hacking the mainstream media then uing them to platform his propaganda. told Joshua Greene, the author of “Devil’s Bargain”, the it’s the mainstream media that does the real damage to Democrats and he was right. The MSM continues to play along with Bannon knowing he’s using them. Then they blame Democrats for the damage they themselves caused.
Thank you Mark! I am so grateful at this moment for substack and like platforms that provide an outlet for amazing thinkers and writers and provide an alternative for those of us who can no longer stomach main stream news.
Exactly this, Becky. I no longer watch any news. I no longer read twitter. Substack is the best platform for receiving honest, articulate, and accurate information.
Keep it going Mark. We need an intelligent spokesperson to advise us of the horrible push by the MAGA RIGHT to deconstruct our democracy. Give them no platform on which they can spew their lies and propaganda.
Unfortunately the deck is stacked against us. Oligarchs power the media and they have no desire to see the dems gain in reach. In addition, Biden is boring. Competency is boring. A growing, stable economy is boring. Good news is boring. The chaos and pain and suffering and angst and antipathy and existential dread and living the edge of war of a trump presidency SELLS.
The powerful Business Roundtable CEOs who recently met with Trump were very disturbed by what they heard. They know his proposed extensive expensive tariffs would be terrible for the economy. From what I understand none of them have donated to him.
Then they need to step up and call him out. The supposedly were also disturbed by his incoherence but have remained cowardly about speaking in front of the microphones.
I didn't know his manner of pathological lying has been studied until after the debate, but now I do, thanks to Heather Cox Richardson. I know I'm not the only one - I love that a history professor has a hugely popular column on Substack and is often just referred to as HCR. That in itself gives me a little hope for our country. Thanks for bringing this up. ID'ing and preparing for tRump's predictable tricks gives Biden another way to show how weak the wannabe strong-man really is.
Media companies are owned by billionaires who would rather defend their wealth and power than defend democracy. CNN hosed us twice with Trump (the Trump town hall & the debate) so they are persona non grata to me. I turn off MSNBC when Katie Tur, Ari Melber, Andrea Mitchell are on. I cancelled my WaPo subscription and am only holding on to NYT for the recipes. I still hold to the Boston Globe and my local paper. I am steaming from the complicity of the media, SCOTUS & the GOP. If the Dems meaningfully sweep all three we can begin the years of work to dig out. My fallback just voted for Marine LePen & the far right in round 1. There really is no place else to go, so standing and fighting is the only option.
“Some journalists may think it’s good for their careers in the short term, but the ugly truth is that it could well be disastrous for America in the long term. Why can’t they see that? Why don't they care?”
Absolutely spot on critique of CNN and Mainstream Media in general. When the fascists take over, arguably, it is the responsible, free press (those who at least aspire to act in the public interest), who will witness their profession utterly destroyed. See Russia or Hungary for more details.
I know this is getting old. But, forgive me when I repeatedly say, FUCK THE MEDIA. Mainstream media is unfit to read or watch. The post-debate, unrestrained attacks on Biden were offensive enough but worse was the absence of a comparable call for that convicted felon, insurrectionist, rapist to step down after his conviction renders the media complicit in the overthrow of democracy. Even my last refuge for fair-minded cable--MSNBC--is now vomitious.
I'd like to know who made the decision that CNN moderators would not fact-check either candidate. I hope ABC does a better job, if there is another debate.
DO NOT AGREE TO DEBATE LIARS AND CONVICTED CRIMINALS. PERIOD. ABC and its Sinclair outlets are the same propaganda outlets. Biden or any other Democratic candidate cannot agree to fact-free checking debates. Democratic advisors need to WAKE UP. These news networks are no longer the Huntley-Brinkley Report. They are pro- MAGA megaphones. Get this through your thick naive skulls. Perhaps, in the future, debates moderated by intelligent fact-checking in real time on C-Spann would be acceptable. Even then, if we are living in a full -fledged autocracy like Russia, it will be a staged event.
What would Walter Cronkite say? Probably that “the President seemed speechless at times in reaction to the Trump firehose of inaccuracies, distortions and documented untruths, which to this reporter were unparalleled in presidential politics. Republicans have had no comment this morning about Trump’s performance. Instead Trump campaign representatives referred our contacts to a NYT editorial calling for Biden to step down from running.”
First, these interviews can’t help CNN, NBC, et al, because MAGA audiences don’t watch. From a purely capitalistic POV, they get minimal benefit.
Second, we must get much better at amplifying the truth. I like the Bernie approach of interviews on Fox. I’d love to see Fetterman, Elizabeth Warren, Jamie Raskin, Kinzinger, Jeffries, and other strong voices become frequent guests on Fox, OAN, WSJ, and push back. Hard. Forcefully.
Finally, lying liars who lie should not get respect, but derision. That should become modus operandi.
There's an old adage that you should never negotiate with terrorists but that's exactly what happens when you give a platform to Bannon, trump or any of the traitors who tried to overthrow our democracy. You're negotiating a platform in exchange for potential ratings! A domestic terrorist has no interest in truth or facts, or even to inform or educate. Their goal is to promote propaganda. If a journalist is committed to facts and the truth, they would not tie their reputation to known liars and traitors. Unfortunately, crony capitalism has taken over the media and the notion of ' The Fourth Estate ' is a worn out joke. It will take truly independent writers ( like this one) and new and improved platforms ( as well as social observation humorists) to provide us with clarity and truth.
Isn’t the answer to the last question in the article found in the Upton Sinclair observation that no one can be made to understand whose salary [read, career] depends on not understanding?
“Why interview Bannon? He has a direct line to the Republican presidential nominee. To understand what a second Trump presidency will be like, listen to what Steve Bannon is saying.”
Except that when you don’t tell Steve Bannon, or more importantly your audience, that what Steve Bannon is saying is morally wrong, factually incorrect, explicitly anti-American and with strong echoes of Nazism, because that would be “biased,” people get the impression that maybe what he’s saying is OK. Our wealthy media class loves to congratulate themselves on “educating and informing the public,” but only sometimes. Nobody said “Well, here’s what Osama bin Laden has to say, and it’s not up to us to say whether it’s true or right,” and yes I am comparing the two.
As for the debate, I’ll say what I said last week: If you’re not going to fact check Trump while he’s lying to your face, why bother doing it later? Does the truth matter, or does it only matter when Donald Trump isn’t around to get mad at you? At best, you’re just pretending that fact checking Trump is a difficult, time-consuming process; Daniel Dale himself has said his job used to be difficult but it isn’t anymore because the lies are always the same.
"Except that when you don’t tell Steve Bannon, or more importantly your audience, that what Steve Bannon is saying is morally wrong, factually incorrect, explicitly anti-American and with strong echoes of Nazism, because that would be “biased,” people get the impression that maybe what he’s saying is OK."
* This is what normalization is, but the way you put it hits you in the gut! I need to keep this description in mind. Thanks very much!
Steve Bannon has been open about manipulating/weaponizing/hacking the mainstream media then uing them to platform his propaganda. told Joshua Greene, the author of “Devil’s Bargain”, the it’s the mainstream media that does the real damage to Democrats and he was right. The MSM continues to play along with Bannon knowing he’s using them. Then they blame Democrats for the damage they themselves caused.
Thank you Mark! I am so grateful at this moment for substack and like platforms that provide an outlet for amazing thinkers and writers and provide an alternative for those of us who can no longer stomach main stream news.
Exactly this, Becky. I no longer watch any news. I no longer read twitter. Substack is the best platform for receiving honest, articulate, and accurate information.
Same.
Keep it going Mark. We need an intelligent spokesperson to advise us of the horrible push by the MAGA RIGHT to deconstruct our democracy. Give them no platform on which they can spew their lies and propaganda.
Unfortunately the deck is stacked against us. Oligarchs power the media and they have no desire to see the dems gain in reach. In addition, Biden is boring. Competency is boring. A growing, stable economy is boring. Good news is boring. The chaos and pain and suffering and angst and antipathy and existential dread and living the edge of war of a trump presidency SELLS.
The powerful Business Roundtable CEOs who recently met with Trump were very disturbed by what they heard. They know his proposed extensive expensive tariffs would be terrible for the economy. From what I understand none of them have donated to him.
Then they need to step up and call him out. The supposedly were also disturbed by his incoherence but have remained cowardly about speaking in front of the microphones.
How is it that coverage of the "debate" failed to mention what TFG was actually doing?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop
I didn't know his manner of pathological lying has been studied until after the debate, but now I do, thanks to Heather Cox Richardson. I know I'm not the only one - I love that a history professor has a hugely popular column on Substack and is often just referred to as HCR. That in itself gives me a little hope for our country. Thanks for bringing this up. ID'ing and preparing for tRump's predictable tricks gives Biden another way to show how weak the wannabe strong-man really is.
Thanks for the sanity. Democracy needs voices like yours now!
Media companies are owned by billionaires who would rather defend their wealth and power than defend democracy. CNN hosed us twice with Trump (the Trump town hall & the debate) so they are persona non grata to me. I turn off MSNBC when Katie Tur, Ari Melber, Andrea Mitchell are on. I cancelled my WaPo subscription and am only holding on to NYT for the recipes. I still hold to the Boston Globe and my local paper. I am steaming from the complicity of the media, SCOTUS & the GOP. If the Dems meaningfully sweep all three we can begin the years of work to dig out. My fallback just voted for Marine LePen & the far right in round 1. There really is no place else to go, so standing and fighting is the only option.
“Some journalists may think it’s good for their careers in the short term, but the ugly truth is that it could well be disastrous for America in the long term. Why can’t they see that? Why don't they care?”
Absolutely spot on critique of CNN and Mainstream Media in general. When the fascists take over, arguably, it is the responsible, free press (those who at least aspire to act in the public interest), who will witness their profession utterly destroyed. See Russia or Hungary for more details.
I know this is getting old. But, forgive me when I repeatedly say, FUCK THE MEDIA. Mainstream media is unfit to read or watch. The post-debate, unrestrained attacks on Biden were offensive enough but worse was the absence of a comparable call for that convicted felon, insurrectionist, rapist to step down after his conviction renders the media complicit in the overthrow of democracy. Even my last refuge for fair-minded cable--MSNBC--is now vomitious.
Then your morals are on a par with the felon and his party.
You need help.
I'd like to know who made the decision that CNN moderators would not fact-check either candidate. I hope ABC does a better job, if there is another debate.
DO NOT AGREE TO DEBATE LIARS AND CONVICTED CRIMINALS. PERIOD. ABC and its Sinclair outlets are the same propaganda outlets. Biden or any other Democratic candidate cannot agree to fact-free checking debates. Democratic advisors need to WAKE UP. These news networks are no longer the Huntley-Brinkley Report. They are pro- MAGA megaphones. Get this through your thick naive skulls. Perhaps, in the future, debates moderated by intelligent fact-checking in real time on C-Spann would be acceptable. Even then, if we are living in a full -fledged autocracy like Russia, it will be a staged event.
Thank you Mark! If only the White House staffers and advisers got this.
What would Walter Cronkite say? Probably that “the President seemed speechless at times in reaction to the Trump firehose of inaccuracies, distortions and documented untruths, which to this reporter were unparalleled in presidential politics. Republicans have had no comment this morning about Trump’s performance. Instead Trump campaign representatives referred our contacts to a NYT editorial calling for Biden to step down from running.”
I would bet NBC higher-ups justify platforming these people by telling themselves they have MSNBC to balance.
A couple of thoughts a tiny bit outside the box.
First, these interviews can’t help CNN, NBC, et al, because MAGA audiences don’t watch. From a purely capitalistic POV, they get minimal benefit.
Second, we must get much better at amplifying the truth. I like the Bernie approach of interviews on Fox. I’d love to see Fetterman, Elizabeth Warren, Jamie Raskin, Kinzinger, Jeffries, and other strong voices become frequent guests on Fox, OAN, WSJ, and push back. Hard. Forcefully.
Finally, lying liars who lie should not get respect, but derision. That should become modus operandi.
There's an old adage that you should never negotiate with terrorists but that's exactly what happens when you give a platform to Bannon, trump or any of the traitors who tried to overthrow our democracy. You're negotiating a platform in exchange for potential ratings! A domestic terrorist has no interest in truth or facts, or even to inform or educate. Their goal is to promote propaganda. If a journalist is committed to facts and the truth, they would not tie their reputation to known liars and traitors. Unfortunately, crony capitalism has taken over the media and the notion of ' The Fourth Estate ' is a worn out joke. It will take truly independent writers ( like this one) and new and improved platforms ( as well as social observation humorists) to provide us with clarity and truth.
Isn’t the answer to the last question in the article found in the Upton Sinclair observation that no one can be made to understand whose salary [read, career] depends on not understanding?